Innovation in the Game industry (mmo market)

[XaeroT]

To create a totaly new, innovative game, that uses absolutly NOTHING these EQ clones have, is going to be a VERY hard thing to accomplish.

I have been trying to figure out ideas that are new, but because of the bland industry thats brainwashing us into "levels/skills/blah" makes it hard.

Just ranting on how the game industry sucks (not a bash at SBG! You guys have the most innovative game out atm it seems, well untill Portal is released LOL).

[Benji_]

The problem is, you realistically can't measure a game without some sort of leveling system- whether it is as UO's was and is skill-based, or EQ/SB/DAoC/etc with levels, without realistically removing the progression concept.

I'm more than willing to eat my words if someone can prove otherwise, but I don't see any way.

[BenSBG]

Players--owners of characters--want and need to have a way to measure the progress and growth of thier characters both against the scale that is used in the game and against other characters' progress along that same measure.

They also want thier characters to become more powerful as they spend time on them. However, an argument could be made for insta-top level characters where the player simply picks the skills from a list to apply at startup. That runs counter to MMO theory as I understand it, but maybe its time for someone to challange the status quo.

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[KenshinDC]

In terms of removing the progression concept.. Why remove things when the goal is keep adding content to keep progression going?

Constant advancement is needed in games to keep people interested... EQ was probably the only game that I have seen that in as the AA system was complex and went into the 1000 number area (1 AA was also equivalent to going through Level 50 or was when I was playing meaning you'd be going through 1000+ Level 50s before getting all the AAs you could and most people didn't have beyond 500 or so).

As for the original post, every generation of MMORPG is a building block for the next gen. I was once taught that nothing in art truly has any originality to it because all of the elements and principles that create it have already been defined and used... Design is merely a composition of those elements and principles to create something. The final design should always be something new, but the elements/principles that create it remain unoriginal. Therefore, the best composition of these elements/principles will create something people enjoy because it is considered "great art".

Such is the idea behind Game Design... The first couple of generations will define the elements/principles which define a great design. People will then take these and arrange them the best way they can and others will eventually come and build upon them. Also, a lot of MMORPGs right now are severely limited by technology. We can apply Computer Graphics in a movie, but any keen eye will catch that it is computer graphics because they are different forms of media... Once technology advances enough to where computers graphics can read one form of media then adapt to the other form to create a single presentation of media. It will prevent us from seeing a difference between something that is a computer graphic or an actual object, and this is when we can finally begin to bring on the realism aspect of computer games to make MMORPGs an actual form of media itself.

People once read books, until television came along and it allowed you to visually see what was taking place, then theaters where everything was shut out (except those annoying popcorn tossers behind you where you have to fling out a bailsong knife and say STFU else I'll gut you like a pig in a demon voice) and you can actually be pulled into the movie through focusing on it and getting into the story...

Eventually, MMORPGs will present stories where it's all about you, you're the actor, you're the director, you're the writer, you can do whatever you want and through constant progression at a starting point work your way up until you can reflect back upon all you've come through just like at the end of a movie. Thus, instead of people just viewing MMORPGs as games... They can view it as becoming a writer of their own story, a television series of the events in their life, or a movie made by them. It will create a more personal form of media that you can control and enjoy.

I can assure you though, we have not even begun to see the tip of the iceberg with MMORPGs. The progression of them is hindered only by technology and human creativity... But as for everyone of them being EQ clones, the leveling system and PvE was indeed established in first gen MMORPGs (MUDs don't count cause they didn't include graphics hehe). But, this is only an element which creates an MMORPG... And we have plenty more things that need to be created, modified, or applied. I believe none of us will even be alive (I'm 20 y/o) by the time MMORPGs have reached their full potential. MMORPGs also open up the true possibilities of virtual reality, allowing you to put full body movement to your characters rather than just push buttons at a keyboard.. Or perhaps, it is virtual reality that should really open up MMORPG's possibilities.

Concluding with a random thought, technology exponentially improves in times of war... So I'm looking forward to World War III.

[KuldHeartid]

I think RPG's (and thusly mmo's) originally were very open ended, basically story-telling with multiple tellers. Then people started applying rules and what not, making it more uniform (assault rifles not allowed with trolls) and personal (I imagine my character, you get yours). I suppose DnD would be one of the first to have leveling and advancement. At least, it was the first really popular rpg.

As soon as BBS's and such came out the rpg's were on computers. Boring, but it was doable. Then single player text-based rpg's came about, I remember a really early one that you dialed into. It only had one way of doing things and if you chose wrong at -any- point in the game you basically died (Do you hand the wizard the coin? No. He scowls at your lack of charity and with a twitch of his gnarled fingers he lights you on fire. You are dead.). There wasn't even any combat.

I don't remember if MUD's or Ultima came around next. Heck, Zelda might've been first. MUD's progressed pretty far though. Lots of content, open pvp, a billion races/classes. Dragonrealms anyone?

Then came UO and EQ. The format was pretty well set, in my opinion. They just fleshed it out, so to speak.

I think the MMO's will go in two different directions. One towards a much more open-ended system, allowing whatever, whenever, with little in the way of 'levels'. The other, I think will actually become fairly rigid. More military. Some people, I think, enjoy games where they have a set goal (and end-game?) and they will create markets for those kinds of games.

(No offense, Kenshin, but hoping for a war to advance gaming is well kinda sick.)