Elves Vs. Minos: New BW/AM powers.

[Aurake]

I find it strange, that the elves created minotaurs, and though we lost control of them, we're probably the most prone to be destroyed by them.

They're unstunnable, which screws all our mages, they have 2 sprints/snare breaks which takes away our ability to keep distance between us, they can have incredicon so many of us don't have the stamina to fight them well, some can hit hard enough to 1 shot us (not just mages). We don't get natural flight, and they get a discipline to dispell magical flight.

We made them, we know their workings, shouldn't we know their weaknesses?

I would propose Archmage be granted a power to fight minos. I believe it should be granted at GM as that training something that fights only a specific race has never seemed to work out so well.

Archmage should be granted a movement debuff vs. minos. It should either be a stackable snare, or it should be an unbreakable -60% snare that power blocks any movement buffs (specifically bloodhooves, but I think it should block others as well, I know bloodhooves doesn't have an effects type, maybe it should pick one up?). I would suggest the unbreakable snare with movement buff block. I would like to see it work as the wizzie snare does, as in .2 cast time, 5 second recast. I don't know how unbalancing that would be though, so that probably needs to be worked with. This allows elf mages to try and keep some distance between themselves an a mino.

Bladeweaver should also grant something against minos, though I'm not sure what. As that I put down my t-lans in favor of increasing my magical standings, I'm probably not the person to speak to this. However, my inital feeling for this would be to grant BW's a mino only blind. But I do have a preference twords BW'ers being defensive toons.

Thoughts comments?

[Casrus]

Interesting idea. It would add another dimension to the game play.

If they made races perform well or poorly against other races.

Not sure that is a good idea for Vindication though. As some sides would be double penalized against an opponent.

[Aurake]

Actually, there is something sort of similar in the game already. Thrall which is a mino only discipline gives powers which only affect elves (they are beneficial powers). Nightstalkers are a class with vampire only powers. Vampire get a vampire only health transfer via discipline.

I can't think of anymore race specific effects. You could argue that some races do better against other races now because of class spread, base ability, and base stats. I'd venture to say minos fair well against elves due to unstunnability and the great HP difference. I'd say centuars do better vs. dwarves due to speed and ranged attackers.

I don't really know though, since I've never played on vindi and thus have always played ARAC.

[BadgerB]

I find it strange, that the elves created minotaurs, and though we lost control of them, we're probably the most prone to be destroyed by them.I think I would go with ironic instead of strange, perhaps as far as fitting, that that those created as slaves pose hold such power over their once masters.

As to gameplay ideas, how about a NPC-Mino charm and for other players a special Mino-only Root ("Leash of the Creators" ?) or even a special Mino-only Stun ("Reprimand of the Creators"?) but then to to be fair, Minos should get some Elf only powers (a mini-rage when done damage by an Elf perhaps?) Just thinking out loud.

As an aside, I always felt that on the Lore Server all Minos in the Elf Charter should have had to take Thrall but rune based charter requirements were never on the to do list.

[Aurake]

*shrugs* I guess that depends on how you define irony. I kind of think minos were designed to fill the weak spots of elves (survive stuns), and so it makes since that with out elves to leash them, they'd wreck us. But that's a whole different conversation on lore & english symatics.

Anyway, NPC Mino charm would be funny, but pretty much useless. Would be interesting to give elf mages an unstunnable pet, but on the otherhand, it'd never be used.

A mino only root I think would only be slightly useful. I'd much prefer a snare they can't break. I too thought of a mino only stun, which would be interesting. I brought up the snare because it'd defintally what I'd prefer, plus I don't know stun immunity would work on someone that always stun immune.

I don't perticularly think minos need any boons when fighting elves, I think being a mino fighting an elf is advantage enough.

On the other hand, you did spark and idea. They should also give arch mage a mino buff. I'm sort of leaning twords a mino only dispell debuff. (would be the only targetable dispell debuff that I know of). I don't know if there are any elf/mino charters on vindi, but if you had some thralls+archmages you might be a force to be reckoned with.

[BenSBG]

Marker

[Aurake]

Pencil

hehe, sorry, couldn't resisit =)

[Kargrym]

Well , when they were thralls, minos not only did battle with the other races, they were also put to war against other elves. It was the folly of the elfs to create a being that was designed to be stong against other elf nations and still think that one day the destruction would not turn inward. Elfs should not have a counter to minos, simply because then there would be no free minos. The elves would have rounded up thier herd again.

[Aurake]

Well , when they were thralls, minos not only did battle with the other races, they were also put to war against other elves. It was the folly of the elfs to create a being that was designed to be stong against other elf nations and still think that one day the destruction would not turn inward. Elfs should not have a counter to minos, simply because then there would be no free minos. The elves would have rounded up thier herd again.

There was never any real elf on elf violence, that was just played up by the sensationalistic underground media to booster support for the overthrowing of the deathless empire.

Hehe, yeah I realize minos were probably made for some elves to smash other elves. I'm just saying, if my base int was only 10 away from godly I believe I'd be smart enough to realize "I need a remote detonation device in these badboys, just incase".

Lore-wize I think it makes sense for elves to be able to mess with minos a bit, seeing as we made them.

Game-wize I think minos are a very strong race that don't have alot of downside. Also, elves get splattered (especially mage and healers) way too easily by minos. Minos get the godly stun immunity all the time. Just stun immunity in the form half-giants/aelfborn get their racial powers would be sweet, but the fact they keep it up all the time no matter what is just a really nice ability. Stack that with the fact they get a discipline that gives them a second sprint/snarebreak and can ground magical fliers, and elves really don't have any good way to stand up to them. We can't effectively snare/root them, we can't fly away from them, we can't out run them (maybe huntresses/rangers can), we can't kill them before they get to us and powerblock/stun us.

Plus I still think elves could really use some more perks. I still think they should be the soft-race, but in shadowbane that's really hard to balance in ideal conditions, take into account lag and what not and it's even more difficult.

[ratell]

Minos pay for their stun immunity with no helm or boots. They have bad def. You can't stun a mino, but you can't miss them either.

[Aurake]

Minos pay for their stun immunity with no helm or boots. They have bad def. You can't stun a mino, but you can't miss them either.

No helm and boots are made up for by the fact minos have base resist bonuses. They recieve a slight run speed bonus (I believe 10%, but may only be 5%), so the lack of windies isn't a big deal either.

Their lack of defense comes from their low int cap and dex caps. But is made moot by the huge starting con/max con they have.

Defense is subpar to the HP minos can obtain. (note, I say this as someone who played alot of defense toons, though hasn't played as many high HP toons).

And the fact still remains, they tend to cream elves. Either I'm purely a squishy glass cannon elf and they close on me too quickly, or I'm a melee elf and I don't have the stamina/hp to take them down.

Like I said, I think elves could use a little love, and I think the thing elves have to fear the most is minos.

[Kargrym]

Hehe, yeah I realize minos were probably made for some elves to smash other elves. I'm just saying, if my base int was only 10 away from godly I believe I'd be smart enough to realize "I need a remote detonation device in these badboys, just incase".


If I were an evil overlord....and had a godly int, I would think I was a god and create a race that was perfect for my use, and I would think that my creation was without flaw because I was without flaw. I mean how could a lowly beast harm a god such as myself.

[Aurake]

And that's what proves you don't have the intelligence of a god. Brilliance is when you realize what you can do and what you can't do.

Also, elf on elf violence via minos (they were trying to pass 5 day waiting period and a mino regisistration) provides a lore reason for why elves would have used their knowledge of minos to develope anti-mino effects (much like dwarves had anti-giant abilities). It would also give a lore reason as to why elves would have a dispell debuff that affected minos.

If were an elf being attacked by another elf's mino I would want to use my knowledge of minos to keep it away from me. If I were an elf attacking another elf with my mino, I would want to use my magical powers to remove any effects the enemy elf was putting on my thrall.

[ratell]

Defense is subpar to the HP minos can obtain. (note, I say this as someone who played alot of defense toons, though hasn't played as many high HP toons).


I bet with the stamina increase an Elven scout would have no trouble with minobarb or warrier. Minodoomsayer might be a different story.

[Aurake]

I really think if we're given something against a specific race, it should be granted for free, or at minimum granted 20 trains, trainable to 40. Then again, I feel skinbeast should be granted for free.

Btw, nobody has mentioned anything that they'd like to see on Bladeweaver as an equivilent type power.