Land, Sea, & Air.

[KayleeM]

I, for one, would love to see the SB model for combat extended to include arial battles (Both aracoix AND flying machines) and sea (both aquatic creatures and boats). Yes yes, there is a thread for flight that isnt that old, but concentrait on the sea battles.

The fact that this would be a major undertaking aside, what are the thoughts of the community?

[SoliTear]

I would like to see that. Since this is a "Future Fantasy" it would be nice to see the use of the technology to move around. It seems that the air and water movement has been trivial, or non-existent in most mmos. No, i don't count swimming as "movement" in water. Maybe even a cloud city that you must get flight to visit. Yes, make it possible to fall off the city. LOL.

[waltzie]

I love this opportunity too.. bu i think that rules for Air & Sea fight must be really different than Land one.

On sea can be also evaluated Ship (like pirates) or new amphibian species.

Natural Fly PC need different stamina use on land than Air to permit a unlimited (no action) fly or almost very long time

[KayleeM]

I would like to see that. Since this is a "Future Fantasy" it would be nice to see the use of the technology to move around. It seems that the air and water movement has been trivial, or non-existent in most mmos. No, i don't count swimming as "movement" in water. Maybe even a cloud city that you must get flight to visit. Yes, make it possible to fall off the city. LOL.

Yeah, i have been wanting floating continents (D&D 2ED Hollow World) to appear in an MMO for a long time.

[iScout]

Yeah, i have been wanting floating continents (D&D 2ED Hollow World) to appear in an MMO for a long time.

I've wanted to see this too.

And you could travel to them in pirate skyships.

[KayleeM]

As long as the code is written the right way, fully supporting the 3rd dimension becomes nothing more than a server power issue....

I think TSP would have a field day with the skyships eh iScout? ;)

[cornholio]

Yes, make it possible to fall off the city. LOL.

lol yeah but there has to be a good collision system, one that allows you to knock afkers off.

[Daerim]

Flying galleons would rock!

[Arcen6]

As awesome as that would be I think it's more than a bit impractical. We'd have to wait forever for the game to come out. It might be better to just pick up Pirates of the Burning Sea when it comes out, if you want ship battles. As cool as it would be to have ship battles and flight battles, the devs would essentially be coding 3 different games, wouldn't they? I think that's a little unreasonable to expect of them of them.

Perhaps just having air ships alone instead of air ships and naval ships would be doable. That would certainly add a very unique element to sieges and such. They could even make them submersible if they implement an underwater section of the game, but that too is probably asking too much. I think air ships are more reasonable to expect than naval ships though, because making the ships look and act like ship on the water would be a serious pain.

[LeddZeppelin]

that ship from Fifth Element that was like a pirate ship but was actually a tariyaki (sp?) restraunt but its flying

[GabrielDecloudo]

hm if possible i would love to see such things in the game when its codet right i think it schould be very ok just give the game an z axe and slow movement under water exept with ships etc or special spells of course u cant hold breath unlimited

i think they know what they do

maybe if not implemented jet they make it possible with an add on or patch or so

[Arcen6]

hm if possible i would love to see such things in the game when its codet right i think it schould be very ok just give the game an z axe and slow movement under water exept with ships etc or special spells of course u cant hold breath unlimited

i think they know what they do

maybe if not implemented jet they make it possible with an add on or patch or so

I don't think I've run across an MMO they didn't already have a Z-axis. Flight is a little more difficult to code than just implementing another axis and setting a parameter or two.

[GabrielDecloudo]

of course i know this

[KayleeM]

I don't think I've run across an MMO they didn't already have a Z-axis. Flight is a little more difficult to code than just implementing another axis and setting a parameter or two.

...but we aren't coding it, we are brainstorming/dreaming it. Honestly, if SBG doesn't tackle hard stuff, then they will end up with Joe Vanilla MMO.... which I really dont think they are gonna do. I have faith that Gorilla Bane will be nothing short of awesome.

[PKedUtoo]

underwater combat code would not be much different then air comabt code.

where you would run into new code would be if the water combat was on top of the water like boats.

would be easiest to use the same code for both and just modify it a little.. keeping all water combat under water

[KayleeM]

...a good collision detection system goes a LONG way :)

[Silkey]

...a good collision detection system goes a LONG way :)


Yeah, thats the biggest thing you have to figure out, then start adding indoor, airborn, and underwater combat systems.

[KayleeM]

Yeah, thats the biggest thing you have to figure out, then start adding indoor, airborn, and underwater combat systems.

With the basic elements of:

- A continual 'Gravity' vector
- Ability to assign Material Types to Meshes (for the purpose of collision detection)

You have what you need to make Land, air, sea, and undersea work. The Material types allows the client/server to know what its colliding with, whether the objects are solid, and what material type are the objects existing inside. It can be a computational nighmare if done incorrectly.... but the flip is also true!

Example.
Your character is standing on the ground. The gravity vector is constantly being added to your char's directional vector. Since you are standing still, the gravity vector represents 100% of your character's directional vector BUT is currently showing a 'collision' with and object that has a 'Ground' material type. This material doesn't allow pass through and as such, prevents you from passing through it into the ground. Your character is currently existing INSIDE a material flagged as 'AIR' thus no suffocation penalty is being applied :)

Switch it up a bit and place your character standing on the air side of the air/water interface and press the 'play' button. The gravity vector is applied and the code detects a collision between your character and an object flagged as 'WATER'. Now, water does allow pass through, but at a rate <100% of that through AIR. This % is applied to your characters overall directional vector (which is nothing but gravity due to standing still) and your character begins to sink at < speed of gravity. Once your character is no longer exiting in two different material types (AIR & WATER) and just in WATER, then its very easy to make breathing checks and apply penalties.

...long winded but its actually much simpler to model 'real world' physics to allow for all 4 mediums (Air, Land, Water, Underwater). With basic material types defined and applied, one can easily detect what Material Type an object is currently existing in and apply appropriate rules (both physics AND gameplay)

...Well, this is how I have seen it done in the past at least.

[cornholio]

hmm I always assumed that they just used a little "dot" in the center of your character to calculate all the rudimentary physics. For example, if the dot is above water, you're just running through the water. If the dot goes under water, then you enter "swimming mode". And I've never noticed any real gravity effects while swimming... even in Oblivion. The most I have seen is when you jump into the water from high above, you might submerge for a second before popping up to the top, but it always seemed like some kind of cheap algorithm was driving that, rather than a real physics engine that processes everything from equipment encumberance to buoyancy!

I'd assume the same is true for jumping or flying. If your character's centerpoint is at a default of say 3 feet above ground level, then the psuedo-gravity effects are turned on any time the dot goes higher than 3 feet, and they are turned off when the dot returns to its base level of 3 feet. But I don't think I've ever seen a "real" gravity system in play. Otherwise I would surely have noticed a change in maximum jump height, depending on what I was carrying.

With "real gravity" along with these "basic material types" used to drive the physics engine, it could allow for much more realistic interactions with the environment, such as tripping and falling over a rock. That would add a very interesting element to combat... especially if you fall while wearing heavy armor! It could add a totally new context for the use of the word "n00b". Not only that but it would allow for the introduction of a new stat: Grace. heh.

[KayleeM]

Well, there is pseudo gravity effects in SB, as you can be harmed by walking too fast down too steep of a slope, or, in otherwords, 'falling'.

In order to correctly detect collisions, not only the SoG for an object is required, but the bounding shape... be it as complex as the devs want it to be (arbatrary 8 sided poly or a much more complex bound, such as the mesh itself). Its all a matter of server horsepower really.

[Protonix]

...a good collision detection system goes a LONG way :)

rife with inuendo imo

anywho, wtb lando calrizzian and the loch ness monster.

[cornholio]

Well, there is pseudo gravity effects in SB, as you can be harmed by walking too fast down too steep of a slope, or, in otherwords, 'falling'.

hmmm I am an expert at falling, but iirc I have not fallen once in my whole time playing sb. I do remember many occasions where I ended up on the seafloor though. But that's more like "hypergravity" than pseudogravity.

[KayleeM]

*GASP* Perhaps I am getting my wires crossed. I KNOW EQ has gravity, and I could have sworn I have fallen in SB. Eh, either way, its possible and exists in a few games out there!

[cornholio]

I could have sworn I have fallen in SB. Eh, either way, its possible and exists in a few games out there!

owned. lol. u need to hit the showers, ur all washed up kiddo.

[KayleeM]

...eh?

[iScout]

Nope, don't think you can actually fall in SB.

Believe me, if there's a way to take damage by going too fast my bird scout with gold running would have done it.